Larry is the Chief Financial Officer of Next Level Investments LLC. Next Level Investments mission is to help the community of Hampton Roads create and sustain generational wealth through real estate investing. Larry has over 10 years of accounting, tax and auditing experience as a CPA. He brings over 4 years of real estate experience and has closed on multiple deals consisting of single-family and multi-family properties. He is a proud father of 2 handsome sons, Larry III and Wesley, and husband to a beautiful wife and mother, Whitney.
-Started investing in 2016 with SFHs and flips. Had mild success but got the investing bug when he bought a SFH using a 203k loan and saw tremendous potential for cashflow.
-Factors in 30-35% reserves for smaller properties
-Having set Rules of Thumb allows you to quickly analyze a property and maximizes your time
-When talking to the individual investors, Larry asks about their expected returns. Some people are satisfied with 5-6% and others want 12-15%.
-Best Investment: Quad in Norfolk purchased through an Auction. Lessons: Can’t force the deal to work and have to stick to your numbers; delegation is key to building an efficient and effective process
Worst Investment: First flip. Lessons: came in overbudget, took a year to flip but was able to return all his investors’ money; stick to the task you are uniquely suited to do, you can’t do everything yourself
Welcome to another episode and lessons, a real estate show. I’m your host, Anthony Pinto, and we are absolutely thrilled to have you here today. Our guest today is Larry Pendleton. Larry is the chief financial officer for the Next Level Investments, LLC. Their mission is to help the community of Hampton Roads create sustained generational wealth and real estate investing areas. Had over 10 years of experience at the county, taxing taxes and auditing as a CPA. He also brings over four years of real estate experience and has close multiple deals. Existing single family and multifamily properties is a proud father of two handsome sons Larry the Third and Wesley, and husband to a beautiful wife and mother, Whitney. Larry, welcome to the show, Anthony.
Thanks for having me.
No problem. No problem. It’s been a while since we’ve talked, so it’s good to. Definitely. Good to see you again.
Yeah. As we say. Yeah, I guess that’s good.
Now you’re going to meet up on Monday. Yeah, tomorrow. It is tomorrow.
And you’ll be excited to see that tomorrow. I think we’ve got a great lineup, so I’ll go. But as the new baby going.
This new baby stuff, so we’re trying to get the phase of getting them out of our bed and into his crib, so another round of long.
Nice to come up pretty soon.
Yeah. The joys of fatherhood for sure. I personally don’t have the experience yet having a child. But, you know, it’s always excited to hear other people’s experiences and what I look forward to eventually. So, so nice.
So, Larry, so, you know, it’s a little bit about your background so far in Hampton Roads area.
And you’ve lived in Norfolk your whole life, right?
I was born and raised in Norfolk, Virginia. Norfolk, if you’re from the area I went to, went to woman Mary for four for college undergrad and got out, did a couple of accounting, got my CPA, did that for about. About 10 years and then came into an internal audit work in the area as well, and then started the textbook keeping company with my partner on Kyra’s PC Financial Services and trying to grow that.
And then he actually put the real estate bug in my ear and try to just take all system.
So that’s two thousand sixteen is when I first started dabbling into real estate, trying to figure out if I want to do flips on rentals, all that, all that good stuff. So we’re mainly from the area. Didn’t really mean travel to places that I really feel a need to move anywhere. And we want to get married, start having kids. I mean, all of our families are here, all our friends are here. So I didn’t really want to do the pick up and move and get adjusted to a whole new a whole new city.
So here we are, awesome and awesome. So it sounds like you said you started with a typical kind of path going from single family homes and flipping to this multifamily cell.
So how did you get started with a single family homes and flipping and realized that that wasn’t your intended path and move into multifamily?
I think like most people, you kind of just everyone just sees just one house being kind of limited in our in our thinking. And I was in that same boat where seeing myself doing an apartment building was never a never a realm of possibility. So you kind of limit yourself to I’ll just do a house and we’ll flip houses. Everyone gets enticed by the big checks, but cash flow is always an interest of mine. So actually, my first deal was a townhouse in Norfolk, three, three, two and two or three loan for that. So about three and a half, four percent down include the renovations. Still had that to this day, same sentence to this day and is gone pretty well, and I mean, does DUSSEL flips and something bad, something good. But then you start to meet more people, you start to read more, educate yourself more and is like, OK, I’m making a couple of net net cash flow, making a couple of hundred dollars a month off of this one deal. But if anything happens, all of that reserve is going to be wiped out. I mean, I know the last summer the H back went out and it’s the middle of July and the lady has three kids. And I had to basically pay whatever I needed to pay, getting temporary, airconditioned the possible scenarios to kind of hold them off until we actually get someone in there to do the we place a unit. But it was like, OK, if I have more cash flow underneath one roof, that’s more reserves I can put to the side. That’s more cash so I can have and it’s all about surrounding yourself. I think that the old term of your network, your network is your network like that, because to ensure the more people that I meet who are doing a hundred plus unit apartment buildings and or have huge portfolios and they have a team around them, they know they know how the game works and just starts with the education.
Awesome man, so, yeah, so you started with you wanting to you kind of got that that flipping bug, so you want to have a lot of capital builds up and you just kind of realized that it’s the lot it’s a lot of work. There’s nothing really passive about it. Neither of it is.
It is a great way to make a lot of money.
And I think a lot of people will get sucked into to that aspect of it to get talked about.
You know, you can make money off of this real quick and everything just kind of builds up. And next thing you know, it’s taking over your whole life. And it’s something I’ve tried to avoid, but it’s definitely been enticing and enticing thought to me as well. So and then you made that transition into do the buy and hold.
And it seems to be really where your momentum is pushing you to buy and hold multifamily family aspect of it. So you talked about having a reserve, so do you have any set guidelines are rules that you set up for when you buy a property, how much reserve you set aside?
If I do a either between one and 20 years, depending how big the deal is, if I do one between one and 20 units, I’ll try to do between 30 and 35 percent reserves in the kind of detail of that day includes potential vacancies, repairs and maintenance, capital expenditures, property management, I mean, even include taxes and insurance, basically all expenses before you even consider the debt service on the property, if you’re going to get debt involved in the beginning.
So try to 30, 35 percent as a as a rough estimate, rule of thumb, just based off of a lot of my mentors and other people who are far beyond where I’m at, are using and doing anything above that try to stick to the 45, 50 percent reserve rule four for all of that. And making sure that we have the net cash flow is within the realm of what we’re looking at, as well as a return on investment.
Gotcha. So do you so when you’re looking at properties, then 20 units on up to you typically use as a benchmark for what your operating expenses will be?
Yes, so I think a lot of us use Michael long as his all the rules of thumb, that he comes up and try to do some additional research, because sometimes you can kind of find out you can find what the taxes are. You can find with the insurances you found with the what the typical lawyer bill is in a particular area. But try to use those little rules of thumb to just kind of help quickly analyze a deal that’s going to be exact to a penny. But at least what I can have in place is, OK, I need to be able to get to a certain number of deals. I need to review as a goal of mine, review 50 deals a week and I can’t go into a deep dive on every single one. I’d be able to know what the rules are in place. Do at least one week. I can’t fill in. A return on investment hit points, if not like this, move on to the next one real quick.
Ok, so in terms of those rules of thumb and what kind of criteria looking for, so what? And everyone kind of has their own, I guess, gates that they look at when and whether it’s cash on cash return IRR.
Those kind of rules for how they’re going to set the return. So what are your typical returns, if you like, to see you often here, investors and has been successful for you?
Well, I personally myself try to get between at least 10 percent of return on investment if I’m bringing in other investors. I like to have the conversation with them of figuring out what type of returns they want to see, especially in this area. We have people coming from out of state, wants to invest in this area. Who are getting off of return like maybe one or two percent return on investment in their in their area or in their state, so they’re looking to other areas to invest in. So they’re fine with five, six percent is more than what they’re getting is more invested in the bank. So it’s really just getting an understanding from anyone that wants to partner with me or partner with our team type returns that you want to see. And then we can we can build the deal around it to ensure everyone is everyone satisfied what they’re what they’re getting.
Gotcha, perfect. That’s interesting.
I know a lot of people have a very set investor term, so now we expect to give eight to 10 percent or 12 or whatever that is. This is the spot we’re going to do if it’s like a syndication. That’s interesting that you’re talking to the individually, talking to each investor and getting what their expected return should be.
I never really I never really thought about it like that. And that’s a good way to go about. And I guess it just gives you a chance to get it.
And a more personal level with those investors, figure out what their goals are and figure out how conservative or liberal they want to be, how aggressive they want to be with the other types of markets or investment that they’re looking in. And that’s definitely, definitely a good idea is to kind of get that that sense when you’re talking with investors of what they what they want to do. Right. Because the worst case scenario, you you end up talking to investors and they’re going to drop a hundred thousand dollars with you and they’re only looking for a particular type of market or particular type of asset. And that’s not what you’re dealing with at all. And you’re both not on the same page. And it ends at you know, you end up ruining a relationship potentially or not working together and wasting everyone’s time. So, yeah, I think definitely talking with an investor and getting what they want to do and what their thought process is and what their returns are like is is definitely a great idea. I love hearing that man. So we’ll transition here to more about your investments.
So you’ve done a few deals, you’ve done some of the smaller multifamily and move into larger multifamily.
So tell me about your best investment, your worst investment, what you learned from it.
My best investment will be four plex. We get the hang of it. We actually go in the auction room to see the auctions. Courthouse steps for forty thousand allow work was needed neither. Our budget was probably around fifty five thousand were actually grew were up in for probably 15 before the end of this year with the renovations and get down on the market and everything out. But what I learned from that one is you can’t you can’t force a deal to happen because that deal we didn’t find that doing the auction, find the wholesalers and the wholesaler. I mean, we knew what the market conservative, what the market rental rates were, and they far exceeded what our return on investment was going to be, but. But when it makes sense that the price of wholesale was was selling and we can just kind of stuck to our guns and then come to find out just due diligence that it was going to launch into the next week. And then able to go to the auction, it was only us and another bidder there and able to outbid them and still come in at twenty thousand less than what we wanted to, but we were willing to buy that. It’s all about this kind of thing, persistent along that process. And then along with that, because of the auction and title search is all there’s always iffy to auctions just having to stay on people with the city about where we are and getting special votes and all of that.
And it definitely helped that I had my partner Terry on with me at the time because we basically tag team on different aspects of it. So I definitely learned the value of having a good, good team in place, having particular standards and stuff to follow up on and being able to to delegate things that I don’t have time or I’m not particularly good at and delegation also because like, OK, this is our team. Our team consists of this person doing this. I’m doing this next person doing that, so, so forth. So I said so with that, like the return that we would have gotten beforehand, now we’re looking at almost doubling with our expected returns are going to be and that’s still being conservative on what the potential race can be in that area. So that was very huge, huge, huge for me along the way, the worst thing I did was a flip. It was it was my it was my first flip. And they kind of it kind of rolls into the lessons I learned from lessons I learned from that one actually helped me with the four plex. And it’s really more about, OK, do you have the right people around? You have the right team around you and stop trying to do everything and try to control everything because it’s almost like holding saying like stuff is going to fall to the more you the more you try to hold.
But we definitely came over budget and we also sometimes go over budget, but we’re way over budget. When it came to came to innovations, stuff had the stall. We had to get other investors involved and I was able to see that through. But we came a one year, one year flip and typical flips and innovation should be done two or three months before. And it wasn’t it wasn’t awful, awful good either. But just just having the proper team in place beforehand, knowing what you’re getting to know everybody’s possibilities and. Because that’s how you hold people accountable if everyone doesn’t really know what their roles are and have accepted those roles. People can go off doing their own things. And that’s that was my fault because I was the the quote unquote leader, the leader of the engagement. That’s a project I found. I put the do I put the numbers together. I try to coordinate with every single person and overwhelming and definitely affected a lot of different aspects of my life because I was still working full time. I was still trying to learn a lot of this stuff. And from my family, friends, everything became real stressed about that. And I’m very fortunate. And everything kind of got gotten back into its proper order. And that was kind of dead and gone. And we didn’t completely lose our shirts on it, but.
It can’t it can’t have me to another club and invested in other people who don’t work is hard for me to sit there and try to do one again with that still on the back of my mind.
But I understand why people get into the get into the flipping game.
Yeah, for sure, Matt. And, you know, that’s a pretty hiring plan over budget one year it the whole.
Were you able to return all the investors money as well? We don’t make any money.
Ok, let’s turn all the investors money. I mean, no money. I lost money on it, but fortunately, it didn’t affect, like, affect me too much. I did. I mean, no one wants to lose money, but I like to like to think of it as I gain a lot of experience in the long exposure to the to the real estate game with this start turning the thing from a negative aspect of it, because it took a strain or a lot of different parts of my life where I was like, OK, I’m not going to be scarred forever, but and I survive, but I’m going to be a little more hesitant, be a little more aggressive with my numbers on the on the next step on whatever deal I do going forward.
Yeah, I mean, and that’s great that you’re able to stick with it and other people would have been like this is that this is what real estate investing is like this this one flip.
And I lost money on it and I’m never going to do anything like this again. And they just get out.
And it’s really a testament to your will and what you learn from it. And, you know, it it’s only really failure if you fail to learn from it. Right.
So in this case, you learned a lot of lessons and that’s awesome. And I’m sure you’re taking those lessons.
It seems like they took the same lessons learned from your flip and applying the quads and moving forward with running your numbers and delegation and all the same, all those wickets that you didn’t hit with your flight and you’re applying it to to future deals. And as you move forward and that and that’s great. And we we had a similar situation on triplex that we bought. And, you know, at the time it looked like a great investment. I was going to cash flow right off the bat from day one. And it turned out that it was a you end up putting tens of thousands of dollars more into this property than we originally intended and know look for a long time like it was going to be a limit. But I tell people that I would have rather learned ten thousand dollars worth of lesson from this one property than one hundred thousand dollars worth of lessons from a 30 unit or three hundred unit. Right. So it sucks in the moment, but we’re never going to really learn unless we have these things happen. Right. You never you never going to see how you’re going to react. And in a crisis, unless that crisis actually happens and it sucks at the time, but at the end, you end up grown stronger from it. And learning these lessons learned that other people who just had success, success, success and all in a row never really get that opportunity to kind of hit. Right. So that’s great that you’re able to take those lessons and continue building on it, I’m sure.
And going back to your to your Clyde and sticking to the numbers, I, I just I see this all the time when I’m looking at properties is just people are willing to they had these set goals of like eight to 10 percent or 12 percent or something like that. And then they just kind of start whittling away, whittling away, whittling away at it to an attempt to try and get a deal. Right.
And it’s just it’s just crazy how far you’re able to compromise and get a deal just to get a deal under your belt or just to get a deal on a contract, much less actually close on it. And I think sticking to the numbers is absolutely vital, especially in this market when cap rates are going through the roof. Right now, people are spending outrageous amounts of money on deals, millions of dollars more than they shouldn’t. And you’re thinking like, how could they how could they ever make any amount of money off of this or make any returns? And I think now at this time, it’s absolutely vital to stick to your numbers and stick to your guns is, you know, worst comes to worst. You buy the property and you have all these high, lofty goals. And then nothing like that actually happens. And you’re in a cult and you’re stuck holding the living as millions of dollars worth of property. And you have investors you have to answer to. You have contractors. You need to answer to tenants. You need to answer. Right. You have all these people that are now expecting you to give them the world and you didn’t stick to your numbers and now you can’t beat those returns.
And this is a bad situation overall. So, yeah, that’s a great sticking with sticking with the numbers.
Yeah. I could definitely, definitely hurt you if you don’t do that. So.
All right. So Larry, so that you got into a flip and then you got into a quad, are you moving into larger multifamily now? What’s on the horizon for you?
Yeah, we were we were looking into larger multifamily. Twenty one twenty five units is what we agreed upon. I’m also like the company that we we serve the quiet wolf, which is really a capability. We also are still going into the duplexes in class because there is a lot of people who want to get into real estate, don’t have the necessary capital and means or the understanding of how to. But this is our way to OK, we still got the bigger picture in mind with the larger units. But OK, this person, only me having a couple of thousand or they all know how to pull money out of their IRA or know how to use the money from their home equity line of credit. So that’s almost I won’t say is an educational program, but it allows us to still communicate with those that don’t have 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars to put into a deal that they may have just 10 or five.
Ok, let’s bring them on this kind of show, then show them what we what we do, how we how the numbers get to deal in the contracts. So for the contractors in place. So we’re kind of playing on both sides of this. Let’s get more people educated. It becomes more financial literacy type of view of it. And what people feel comfortable with the smaller deals.
Ok, we may have set up our investor pool for for larger deals and we’ll still keep we’ll still keep interviewing me and meeting up with investors as well who can play into the larger deals and pass indications. But we want to want to kind of bring the masses with us as we continue to grow as well.
Yeah, that’s great, Manny, upon pulling all this up by the bootstraps and sharing the lessons learned to help others that say no, that’s I think that’s absolutely vital is providing that educational opportunity and giving your lessons learned and telling people, you know what, not only giving them the lessons you have, but telling them what you’re doing now, what you do in the future. And I think that is absolutely vital is branding yourself. And I don’t think a lot of people fully, fully grasp what that what that actually entitles doing. You don’t need to put your name on a whole bunch of coffee cups and give them out all the time and make a whole bunch of merchandise and stuff. You can just add value to people. Adding value is it can be simple, it can be asking questions, it can be providing education, content could be running the numbers, it could be walking a property with someone and just showing them the things that you saw on your properties that were red flags or good things to talk about. Right? Yeah. And just providing value can be can be simple, can be can. I think it’s absolutely vital because now you provided that value to someone and now they associate you with that property or that type of investment. Right. And now they’re going to come back to you with more and more and potentially even be to be invested. So I think I think that’s great. Is it’s moving up that that next step with your branding and putting what you’re doing out there to people so that when the time comes around where you’re getting into one hundred and a property, now, these people know that you’re the real deal. You’ve been you’ve been continuously doing deals. They know that you know what you’re doing. And they would be willing to bet with you. Yeah, definitely. I agree with that. Awesome. Any particular market you’re looking at right now?
Of course, I know you discuss about Kansas City. I Jacksonville, Florida. There’s another to the market that we’ve been looking into. Always intrigued with Hampton Roads because of how transit is become. Kind of makes himself into his own rental market as well, and those people are moving here, but with the bases and the universities and colleges as well as the different beaches and the world is always on our on our on our radar as well. So and then looking into Tennessee, Chattanooga, which is there a couple of weeks ago, and there’s a lot of jobs moving, moving in that direction. So connecting with a few people down there as well as in. My mentor in the land of more than Gustas area, as well as Texas Tech, who seems to be the be the next the next big thing, will have so many, so many jobs and there will be no state tax. So it just it draws a lot of people in and in that way because they’re the are really employer friendly, which also leads to being their landlord friendly as well.
So it sounds like he definitely done your research on these particular markets and you never really know what you’re getting into, and it’s great that you’re sticking with your hometown.
They want to invest in that area. I mean, it makes sense if you’ve been here all your life to continuously give that to the community. That’s great, right?
Plus, I said we go into a lot of places where there are people living there. And unfortunately, there’s quite a few slumlords, not only our area, but it’s all over the country, but for the sea people living in just terrible conditions. And they say, I mean, the landlord is trying to sell and you talk to the tenants and Leno doesn’t respond to anything or the leaks in the house or whatever. And it’s like, why? Why treat people that way? I mean, you don’t have to break your back, but it starts with making sure you’re ethical person and then you have your numbers in in the first place where, OK, if someone needs a repair, do they always have to be you have to be top notch, like a class work. But as long as you provide people a clean, safe place to live, then they’ll treat it well. But I mean, sometimes you just start disappearing on them or just letting just issues out of their control. I said the power goes out or there’s a hole in the roof or a hole from one year to the next unit. And speaking of the scene personally, and people are willing to do that because they want a roof over their head. And it’s the rent is cheap, but it doesn’t have to be the cheapest and be cheap quality as well. So and knowing all is all balances along the way, but you can provide people a good place to live in and be respectful of the fact that there’s there’s a human being here.
Just give us some decent conditions to live in at least.
Yeah, no, I mean, that’s great to have, providing a quality, safe place for your tenants. I think it’s absolutely vital.
You know, it’s this may be a business and maybe making money off of your tenants, living in a safe place, but at the same time, like, those tenants don’t want to live there and they decide to move out. Now, you have no vacancy, right? So instead of just drawing out all the money from the property initially, put it back into it, create a community rent, create an area that’s safe that people want to come live in. Right. It’s helpful for the tenants and for you. You’re going to lower your vacancy. You’re going to have less issues with turnover, all those other things that it saves money in the end. But it’s also just a decent thing to do to help people be integrated when you’re dealing with people and providing the safe, affordable housing. I think that’s it’s absolutely vital.
And I’ve seen some crazy properties that it just blows my mind not only how people are living in those conditions, but why the landlord is allowing people to live in those conditions.
All right, Larry, we’re going to get into the snapshot around. You ready? Let’s go. All right, man. Here we go.
All right, Larry, what is the number one thing you need as a new investor to get started?
Education. If you don’t have that, you don’t have the basis to to truly understand. Like where the money in the capital come from, how to structure a deal, how to how to make a proper offer on the deal, how what returns are you willing to give, so forth and so on as the basis on how you’re educating yourself, whether you’re paying for seminars or classes or you find a mentor, whatever, audiobooks, podcasts, you have to you have to fill yourself in education first before. Before you actually get into it.
Perfect. Yeah, I think that that’s absolutely vital education, knowledge. Yes, you know what you’re talking about. All right, second question. What is one nugget of investing knowledge you want to give us?
I think you mentioned before that there’s money in these buildings, but at the end of the day, real estate is is a people it’s a people business you’re dealing with your team. You can’t do this by yourself. I think we get caught up and to what can I do or can I do this or how can I do this? This is really more like how can I help my team in place? So if you have the proper team in place, that will help you get along the way. So there’s also clues on how you networking or you network with people who’s on this on the same level or at a level greater than where you where you are you want to attract to that. You need to get around more people like that. So and so you have tenants or people that’s on back of your home. If you if you’re going to be flipping, you have the seller. So there’s all these all these people in place that you can’t really get caught up in the money you’ve got. You really have to make sure your personal skills and your being a genuine person. Along the way, because people will see right through that and it is always going to be bad, bad apples and every bite. So there’s just a lot of people that don’t really understand that aspect of it. This is people first and then worry about all the other the numbers and the buildings after that.
Absolutely, man. Absolutely. All right. And then last question. What is your dream?
My dream is to actually be able to to teach financial literacy through real estate, and there is a lot of people out there doing it already, even locally. I mean, you have people like Chris Haskins and things like Hampton. He’s doing it but doesn’t mean that more people can’t provide that. And I’m not I mean I mean, I do a podcast. I may not do a book, but maybe I do just OK, here’s how we do our deals, like the one I just kind of finding, like finding what’s effective for me in order to provide a service to be able to give back again, give back to people in that aspect of it.
Yeah, servant leadership, yeah, that’s great, you know, I’m sure having these lessons learned, you’re getting going through these deals, having that financial freedom to be able to go around, talk with people, not have to work at W-2 and go travel the country and kind of spread the word.
Yeah, I think that’s absolutely vital. I think a lot of a lot of people, particularly in the military, just don’t fully understand what it means to be financially literate. Right. And much less how to get into real estate. So I think that’s great that you’re providing that service to people. That’s really what it is. It’s a it’s a service. You know, you’re taking what you’re what you’re doing now and providing that to other people so that they can avoid the pitfalls that you ran into and grow upon what you’ve already built. I think I think that’s right. And so I’m glad to hear that that you’re focusing on other people rather than buying a brand new car or whatever. You know, there’s something wrong with that. And I have a car on my vision board I want to get one day, but it’s also being able to help people on it. And I think that’s absolutely, absolutely vital. All right, Larry. Well, I appreciate you coming on today.
Where can people learn more about you or contact you on Facebook and on Instagram, Larry Pendleton on Facebook of I need to change my name. So I did upgrade that. But you I’m your Facebook or you can go to our Web site next level investments via dotcom. Learn a bit more about myself, my partners, Tarion and Dontari, the third slowly building that in our social media platform in place. I, my my email, my number, all that is up there. So I said all calls, all emails and just real, real intrigued to like talk to more people about this and get them to the next step in their life as well.
Perfect man. Great.
Well, we’ll link that all in the show notes. And yeah, you gave us a lot to think about in it. And this episode today and I appreciate coming on today, Larry.
I’m excited to see how you how you grow in the future.
You know, you’re already up to the great start. You’ve been an inspiration to a lot of people. So continue doing what you’re doing and hopefully we’ll have that gone eventually here.
When you’re a billionaire real estate investor, I appreciate you looking forward to seeing, well, these products work out for you because you’re definitely providing a huge service with this and give people the opportunity to kind of see and hear from other people. This is a lot out there, but I think especially starting locally and then building out from there is very, very beneficial for a lot of people.
I appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Yeah, I’m just trying to add value and trying to add value as we can, so.
All right, Larry. Well, I appreciate coming on and we’ll see you next time.